My place

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My place

Post by Martinc on Fri May 11, 2012 1:38 am

Sorry to bore you all with this but the forum seems to be the only place I can express myself and possibly be heard.
My place:
I'm sitting in the middle of a huge grey emptiness - there is no colour and no sound except the wind driving the rain through. There is no horizon - the grey clouds blend imperceptibly with the grey rocky landscape. I'm naked apart from an old (grey) blanket, cold, wet and miserable. I think there may be a cave nearby where I could shelter, but I'm too tired to go and find out. This is my place.
No wonder I think that lying in a warm bath with my music playing and a glass of wine to wash down a dozen zopliclones would be a nice place to be. While I'm lying in the bath nice and drowsy I can cut open the veins in my arms and just drift off to a better place. Oh bring it on

Martinc

Number of posts : 44
Location : Upper Hutt
Registration date : 2010-10-27

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Re: My place

Post by deathsoonplease on Sun May 13, 2012 3:12 am

You have been heard.......
You are not the only one....
You convey your feelings quite elegantly
I read this and I think, is this person really going to do this and what can I do about that. The only thing that comes to mind is to ask you to consider what will be the consequences of your actions for those you leave behind.
I'm tired of platitudes like things will get better or this too shall pass, because for some of us this aint the case. Some of us must endure and actually that endurance itself is a worthy achievement.
Is that enough ?

deathsoonplease

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Re: My place

Post by loveroses on Sun May 13, 2012 2:43 pm

scary words - I hope in the writing and the reading of them it was enough for you to read and reconsider, because with a talent with words like that just think how you could make people see into your world........ I mean, your words pierced me with their reality - and I am supposed to be severely depressed (or so they tell me)
Please choose life, and what if one day your tomorrow is a better place ? It's our hope anyway.....

loveroses

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Re: My place

Post by Martinc on Sun May 13, 2012 8:19 pm

Thanks loveroses - well I'm still here, hanging on and hoping.
I'm seeing my psych today, but he's just a chemist - take a little more of this and a little less of that and we'll see if it improves!
It really is a grey world for me at the moment - nothing to relieve the dreariness. I think the saddest thing is that none of my previous interests are interesting any more and I get no pleasure from things that used to cheer me up. However, there is one little glimmer of light - I have a grandson who gives me unconditional love, who smiles at me even if I'm feeling ugly and unwanted and who derives pleasure from the simplest things. My family say they need me but I'm not convinced - little Harry doesn't tell me he needs me (he's only 16 months) but he demonstrates it with his pleasure and laughter.
This at least keeps me alive.
Thanks again loveroses for at least reading my brain dump and sending a reply.

Martinc

Number of posts : 44
Location : Upper Hutt
Registration date : 2010-10-27

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Re: My place

Post by loveroses on Sun May 13, 2012 11:04 pm

Soooooooooo this little cutie pie Harry really really needs you Martinc Smile So Harry only sees you as a very special person in his life - and if he is your one bright rainbow on the horizon - cling to that!!
I so hope the future gets a little (or a lot!) brighter for you - not much fun when the gloss goes off things aye. Maybe today that Mr Chemist will hit on the right combination for you to start taking - fingers and toes crossed for you. It was nice to hear back from you, I have hardly had any feedback from my posts even though lots read them so it was a nice surprise.
Take care - you are special, even though you don't believe it at this moment, one big hug from me <3

loveroses

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Re: My place

Post by Martinc on Tue May 15, 2012 3:05 am

Thanks again to you loveroses for those sympathetic words.
By the way, I love roses too (except in July when it's pruning time!) - have lots in the garden and my absolute favourites are the rugosas with Blanc Double de Coubert the best of all.
The time with the chemist (psych) yesterday was just about what I had expected it to be - reduce the venlafaxine by 75mg and start Zyban 75mg - come back in a month and tell me if you feel any better! Would you believe that right through the session he's busy at the keyboard recoding whatever - says it saves him time from having to do when I've left.
I' still pretty low - about 5 on my scale out of 100 where 50 is normal. To be honest I've just got a few things to finish off and tidy up before checking out. It might take me a week or so.

Martinc

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Re: My place

Post by Martinc on Tue May 15, 2012 3:08 am

Hi deathsoonplease - thanks for reding and responding to my post.
I guess you're right - there are plenty of people out there also feeling pretty low and the nature of my illness usually prevents me from appreciating this. It's quite easy to become introspective and think you're the only one feeling this low.
The worst thing I've had today was my wife telling me to 'buck up and snap out of it' - what a joke!

Martinc

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Re: My place

Post by loveroses on Tue May 15, 2012 2:24 pm

Hi again Martinc
I am going to check out that rose, sounds lovely - just the name of it Smile
The psych has the bedside manner of a galah by the sounds of it - think they have the wrong career!! Are you serious when you say you have a few things to finish off and tidy up before checking out??? Oh man I hope not, I would be devastated if that was the case - please don't act on your feelings. Keep battling on for the sake of your wee Harry. He needs you in his life as much as you need him you know.
Your wifes comment did nothing at all to make you feel any better about your self but she probably just said it in the heat of the moment - you and I both know that snapping out of it is not an option - if only it were that simple aye..... boy if that was something that could be patented we would be very very rich!!
Well it is 2.20am and I am yet to go to sleep - oh the joys of an insomniac, but I just checked my emails and noticed this one from the forum telling me of your post so I could not hit my pillow without saying hi. I look forward to hearing back from you today. I hope that there is a little sunshine in your days somehow, somewhere - please take care of yourself, and if you don't feel able to do that, please phone for some real help to take care of you while you are unable - please, you are so important and so worth fighting for.

loveroses

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Re: My place

Post by MusicOnMyMind on Tue May 15, 2012 8:38 pm

I'm loving the sound of your grandson Martin... such pure love huh? All they care about is having you to play with and snuggle... and they let you know how much you mean to them

I'm hoping the check-out thoughts don't stick around for you, and that living gets easier.

Am here to listen.
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MusicOnMyMind

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Re: My place

Post by Martinc on Wed May 16, 2012 6:06 am

Thanks to you who have posted responses - it means a lot to me. I tried to talk to my wife about how bad I'm feeling, but I guess if you haven't been where we are it is hard to understand. She told me that my illness was a very selfish illness - that I've become self centred and only focussing on my depression and how low I feel. Maybe some of that is true, but I thought that being selfish required the exercise of free will. As if I have chosen to be bi-polar and suffer from depression. I certainly didn't choose it, and I guess all of us who suffer from it would much rather be without it - I know I would.
I'm still in that dark grey place - I find I retreat to my room and just lie on the bed with my eyes closed. The stillness helps at least to keep the demons away for a while.

Martinc

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Re: My place

Post by Martinc on Wed May 16, 2012 6:08 am

BTW - I had to look after my grandson Harry for most of today - although he's an absolute delight I feel absolutely wrung out. I guess at my age I'm not up to being and full time child minder. I need a cup of tea and a lie down!

Martinc

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Re: My place

Post by loveroses on Wed May 16, 2012 8:04 am

Hi Martin - so nice to hear from you Very Happy How old is Harry? I guess as rung out as you feel with having cared for the wee man all day its probably better than lying around on your bed with your eyes closed.
I guess it is so hard for spouses to understand our pain and get a real window into our worlds and its easy for them to think we are just self focused. Have you ever thought of showing her this site? There is a section for partners etc of us - it may be helpful for her, or even for her to read some of your posts. Is there anyone else around you that you may be able to reach out to Martin? A close family member or friend may just have an extra measure of empathy and be a good support to you at this time. I hope you sleep well tonight after your exhausting day, thanks again for posting !!

loveroses

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Re: My place

Post by loveroses on Wed May 16, 2012 9:44 am

Martin - I reread your previous posts and I see little Harry is 16 months old, no wonder you are exhausted!!! You probably feel like you have run a marathon today! I hope you sleep peacefully tonight. My children are 16, 18 and 20 so no grandchildren on the horizon just yet, but one day I am counting on it Very Happy I am wondering if Harry is walking yet as he would be into everything - you would just about need eyes in the back of your head!!
Oh well Martin, I just wanted to let you know that you have been in my thoughts today, very much so - just wish I was closer so we could have a cup of tea together - Diane

loveroses

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Re: My place

Post by deathsoonplease on Wed May 16, 2012 11:12 am

I'd like to affirm what loveroses said. I think it would be a good move to show your partner this site. People who have not experienced depression have difficulty in understanding it because they don't know what it feels like. I know I have empathy and that motivates me to add my cents worth here.
What is necessary for those without such experiences is the ability to accept what is real for you even if they don't believe or understand it. This is a mistake I have often made, to make light of others feelings. Sure they may be wrong or self-centered or whatever, nonetheless this does not diminish the reality of those feelings and their effects.

deathsoonplease

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Re: My place

Post by Martinc on Thu May 17, 2012 1:15 am

Thank you all - loveroses, deathsoonplease and MusicOnMyMind - I'm feeling sort of overwhelmed with support and good vibes.
I'll try to deal with some of the things you have suggested:

Letting my wife see the forum and what is being said - well - I don't think I'm ready for that, or for that matter my wife. I feel protected here - all those reading my poists and the replies are fellow sufferers of one sort or another, so I'm reasonably relaxed about letting my guard down and pouring out the inner thoughts. I'm just lucky that you are all so accepting.

Deathsoonplease - right on! Who was the philosopher who said "perception is reality" - in other words if I perceive it so, then that is my reality regardless of what others may think.

Loveroses - well little Harry is 16 months (going on 17) and into everything. He toddles around the house looking for mischief - not that he's naughty - he just doesn't understand naughty or right or wrong yet, he's just an active toddler with a well developed sense of interest. I did run marathons a few years ago - I think that gave me a different sense of tiredness. Harry wears out my mind as much as the body - I'm nearly 70 and I think I'm only upto days like that on occasion.

The gray place still exists - I'm still trying to find a way out, but any stress or tension drives me right back.

Thanks everyone - I'll stay in touch

Martinc

Number of posts : 44
Location : Upper Hutt
Registration date : 2010-10-27

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Re: My place

Post by Martinc on Thu May 17, 2012 9:01 pm

Arghhh - another poor night! Tortured mind - a mixture of resentment and guilt. The human mind is a strange organ - I lay there last night feeling resentful about not having time to do things that I might enjoy and then feeling guilty because I'm being selfish.
Like my thoughts on grandson Harry - I wrote that I had looked after him for the beter part of a day and was exhausted, but I feel guilty that I didn't really feel grateful for the opportunity to spend so much time with him
During last night I was also writing my goodbye/sorry letters in my head - that's an interesting exercise - trying to apologise for all those years of being such a bastard and at the same time telling people what I hope they will achieve with their lives without me.

Here's an interesting thought - if you believe in euthanasia - letting someone decide to end their own life because they are in the grip of an incurable illness - then why doesn't the same principle apply to someone with an incurable mental illness? I do believe in euthanasia - letting someone decide the time and manner of their own death so they can exit with some dignity. I want the same dignity - the ability to choose the time and manner of my own death.

Sorry to ramble on - I'm not having the best start to the day, Martin

Martinc

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Re: My place

Post by loveroses on Thu May 17, 2012 10:31 pm

Good Morning Martin - I did not have a great night either, bummer aye!! See if you lived closer we could do early hours milo!! I understand the over thinking, the guilt, resentment, etc etc - we need an on and off button in our heads aye, or at least a mute button to quieten down those noices.
I can't really answer your question re euthanasia as I don't really believe in it - I do understand why people choose it tho. I nursed my Dad at 58 with lung cancer in our home, and he died there - and there was a couple of times I would have liked to have ended his suffering, and even a couple of times or more that I thought I may have killed him through over dosing him on morphine to dull his pain - love does that, tries to end anothers suffering. See I guess Martin - in the end, I try to hope for a better future. I only recently got diagnosed with depression, so I do not have the burden of carrying this for year after year - but the pain of it and the physical pain I live with daily can be soul destroying - saps your zest for life, dulls the light in your eyes and makes you hope for no tomorrows. But you know, I really believe even in the pit of absolute despair, that there are small glimmers of light - take for instance your wee man Harry, 16 months of life, when you looked after him the other day Martin - sure you felt really exhausted and drained at the end of it, but I bet that at the beginning and throughout some of that day you have moments of utter delight in his presence. Do you think that perhaps that could be enough to keep you from putting pen to paper in what would be the saddest, most tragic letters your loved ones ever get to read? If it was in my power I would force you to stay around Martin but sadly I can't, you have to find that will within yourself - but as we have said, and I say it again - the are some of us here that deeply care about what happens to you and want to offer that hand of friendship and support to you.

loveroses

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Re: My place

Post by Martinc on Fri May 18, 2012 1:32 am

Thanks loveroses - I guess this illness leads to twisted thinking - at least that's what I've been told by those few who are close to me.
My mind follows a path of it's own - I keep being told how negatively my depression is affecting the rest of the family and how much they wish it would go away. Well - my thought is that if I check out they won't have to put up with my depression any longer - they will be better off without me.
They tell me how much they need me - but those needs are like - managing the garden, doing the housekeeping, looking after Harry, helping my daughter with her house renovations. All of those are great for them, but what about me and my needs?
No easy answer to that one because I immediately feel guilty for being selfish - an easy button for my wife and the rest to push!
Thanks again, Martin

Martinc

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Re: My place

Post by deathsoonplease on Fri May 18, 2012 3:13 am

I don't know about you, but my greatest and most satisfying achievements are when I can help others.
Honestly the best cure for depression and the kinds of thoughts you seem to be entertaining is too distract yourself by attending to someone elses needs. Do that and find your own needs met or at the very least somewhat less insistent
I believe that all people are naturally selfish especially when the going gets tough. To be unselfish takes effort and decision and is done so we can co-exist with other people.
My challenge to you. Try attending to the needs you see around you such as those you have mentioned, without any expectations or conditions. What have you got to lose ?????

deathsoonplease

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Re: My place

Post by loveroses on Fri May 18, 2012 3:25 am

deathsoonplease, I think Martin has done this in caring for his wee grandson Harry, and sometimes in our darkest places is when it is hardest to reach out to others - I mean his wife has been accusing him of being self absorbed already, which when you are at your lowest is like a slap in the face. It's just easier said than done - but caring for Harry is a wonderful way of caring for another - and children always accept, never judge Smile They are love tied up in a small bundle of childishness <3

loveroses

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Re: My place

Post by loveroses on Sat May 19, 2012 3:22 pm

Hey Martin - It's 3am here and I woke up thinking about you, wondering what you are doing today and how it is going to be for you? I have a couple of kids staying to give them a break from their families and I thought to myself - If only Martin could come down and stay - he would not feel judged or pressured here!!! Mind you 5 young people for the weekend night be not the quietest of places Smile
Let us know how you felling, I would love to know <3



loveroses

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Re: My place

Post by Martinc on Sun May 20, 2012 7:39 pm

Me again - not the best of weekends, but not the worst either by a long way. Helped look after Harry both days - he's a treasure, but he has a nasty cold that has gone to his chest.
It's been suggested by more than one person that I involve myself in some form of voluntary work - and I'm sure it would help, but I just need a little more head space before I could tackle anything like that. I would also need to have the free time!.
Enough blather - I'm not quite so close to checking out as I was last week - due in part to having this forum and your support - thanks

Martinc

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Re: My place

Post by loveroses on Sun May 20, 2012 8:05 pm

Well Martin you have put a smile on my face this morning - been wondering how you are doing. Poor wee Harry, colds in little ones are no fun. I understand you needing the head space before you tackle some voluntary work - what sort of thing interests you? If you can follow a passion then you will grow to love whatever you tackle - i.e if you like horses then Riding for the Disabled is always in great need of helpers, and the children/young people they help will light up your heart.
It sounds like a lot of your time is taken up in caring for Harry, do his parents both work?
"enough blather" ha, you don't know how nice it is to hear from you this morning - you can blather on to me all you like !! Just to know you have not checked out has totally made my day Very Happy I have had a young man staying for the weekend in a family crisis situation, had never met him before but it was great to spend time with him and get to know him a little - it does take your mind off youself a little. Oh well, speaking of him I had better get him to school as it is raining here down in South Canterbury.
Take care Martin - so nice to hear from you, big virtual hug from me - that's if you like hugs from strangers Smile

loveroses

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Re: My place

Post by Martinc on Wed May 23, 2012 9:18 pm

Loveroses - sorry I didn't respond to your last post - your hug from a stranger was most welcome.
I'm happy to say I'm feeling a little better - some of the grey cloud has lifted and I'm about 35 out of 100.
I'm sure some of it is due to the forum and the messages of support I've had, and some of it is because I made a free standing sand pit for Harry. Making something useful in the workshop and feeling proud of what I've made always gives me a lift.
But if I was asked exactly why the grey clouds are lifting I would be unable to give a precise answer - I don't think it has much if anything to do with the slight adjustment in my drugs - but who knows?

Don't question the "why" - just be happy it is!
I hope you're all feeling OK (or even better - happy) - I'll post again when I'm able, Martinc

Martinc

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Re: My place

Post by loveroses on Thu May 24, 2012 5:45 am

Yay for Harry sandpits Martin - that is wonderful, and I agree when you feel proud of your handi work you get a bit of a lift from it - I bet Harry thinks that you are the bestest person ever when he gets to play in it Smile
You are so right - don't try and analize the why you are feeling a little better - just enjoy the feeling, and see it as a part of the journey.
Gotta go dish dinner for my family - love hearing from you, and here is another hug just for you today *HUG* Smile

loveroses

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Re: My place

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